David Bruce Murray 12 May 2005 06:47:42 [ permanent link ]
"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:514481hakoj3edaurslnf3sofhlf91os46@4ax.com...> Petra has finally called it quits.
It's about time. _Jekyll and Hyde_ was too little, too late.
-- David Bruce Murray is still "Making hay while the sun shines" CD Reviews/BLOG: www.musicscribe.com/blog.html ("I know a pagan piano riff when I hear it." - Dr. Bobby Clark)
Their music has been with me through a lot of times, so it's kind of a bummer for me as well. However, I haven't really gotten into any of their music in recent years - they've changed and my tastes have changed - so it's not like I'll really be missing anything. I've still got my old stuff to listen to now and then. I guess I could say I'm "extra" glad I went to see them in concert last year, now that I know they won't be out there anymore.
I honestly have never really understood the appeal of Petra. They are one of the most overated Xian bands out there IMO. Particularly annoying to me are the vocals (both singers).
In article <DvQge.6933$Dh.749@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>, bushman <REMOVEbushmail@earthlink.net> wrote:>I honestly have never really understood the appeal of Petra. They are one of >the most overated Xian bands out there IMO. Particularly annoying to me are >the vocals (both singers).
I liked 'em. Not so much the first couple of albums, but the Volz stuff was really good, and the first few Schlitt albums were good, too. After _Beyond Belief_ things started going downhill, and once they started bringing in a bunch of nameless young dudes, they should have hung it up.
I always thought if they'd done a "reunion tour" with Volz and Schlitt on vocals, Hartman on guitar, Weaver on drums, Lawry on keys, and Cates on bass, they might have breathed a bit of life back into their career. I, for one, would have been really excited to see that. As it stands, though, I couldn't really muster much enthusiasm for the last 10 or so years of their music, and _Jekyll and Hyde_ was, I guess, too little too late.
JRjr -- %%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%% www.prism.gatech.edu/~jr70 %%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Some will shake off the sloth of faithlessness While others simply languish in their sleep Me, I just fight to stay awake..." -- VOL, "Black Cloud O'er Me"
bushman wrote:> I honestly have never really understood the appeal of Petra. They are one of > the most overated Xian bands out there IMO. Particularly annoying to me are > the vocals (both singers).>
From: jake- I really wish Petra-haters would stop posting. >>>>>>>> it makes them feel a little better about themselves, to have someone to put down. it may be the highlight of their day. ;) eric
News.Verizon.Net 13 May 2005 14:19:18 [ permanent link ]
I can relate. Grave Robber was the first Contemporary Christian song I ever heard. The song was cool and it got me to open my Bible for the first time in a long time back in the 80s. Petra will always have a special place with me even though the later stuff didn't thrill me.
Doug T.
"Kurt Evans" <everything_matters@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1115949942.538475.248770@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> Christian Mericle <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote:> >Petra has finally called it quits.>
Seriously though, tears welled up in my eyes when I read> this news. The most exciting work Jesus has done in my life> was in the late eighties and early nineties, and more than> any other artist or group, Petra provided the soundtrack.>
news.verizon.net wrote:> I can relate. Grave Robber was the first Contemporary Christian song I ever> heard. The song was cool and it got me to open my Bible for the first time> in a long time back in the 80s. Petra will always have a special place with> me even though the later stuff didn't thrill me.>
Doug T.>
_Beyond Belief_ will always rank as one of my all-time favorite albums, even though I probably haven't listened to the whole thing in years. _Unseen Power_ was good too, and _On Fire_ had some cool tracks ("Hit You Where You Live" and "Counsel of the Holy" come to mind).
Some of the really old stuff like "Why Should the Father Bother" and "Yahweh Love" still makes me smile whenever I stumble on it on an old mixed CD or something. I don't think I ever heard the origingal "Rose Colored Stain Glass Windows" but I like the Jars of Clay version on _Never Say Dinosaur_. In fact, that whole "tribute" is pretty good (Phil Keaggy's bass playing on "The Coloring Song" is a treat).
I lost track of Petra sometime around _No Doubt_ and although I own _Jekell & Hyde_ I haven't really listened to it. I think once a band has come to the point where the supporting players (bass/drums/keys/etc) are on a "whoever's available" basis, it's time to give it up...which would have been what, five years ago for Petra?
Bob is still The Man when it comes to guitar licks and solo's though.
In article <9g0he.3267$Rr3.983@read1.cgocable.net>, Andrew Kerr <apkerr@yahoo.com> wrote:
Some of the really old stuff like "Why Should the Father Bother" and >"Yahweh Love" still makes me smile whenever I stumble on it on an old >mixed CD or something. I don't think I ever heard the origingal "Rose >Colored Stain Glass Windows" but I like the Jars of Clay version on >_Never Say Dinosaur_. In fact, that whole "tribute" is pretty good (Phil >Keaggy's bass playing on "The Coloring Song" is a treat).
Yep, the tribute album is pretty good, and that's one of the few Jars of Clay songs that doesn't bore me to tears, which is an accomplishment for them and a statement about the quality of the source material. You should seek out the original version (from _More Power To Ya_), though - it's quite good as well.
JRjr -- %%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%% www.prism.gatech.edu/~jr70 %%%%%%%%%%%%%% "Some will shake off the sloth of faithlessness While others simply languish in their sleep Me, I just fight to stay awake..." -- VOL, "Black Cloud O'er Me"
Christian M . Mericle 13 May 2005 18:03:03 [ permanent link ]
On Fri, 13 May 2005 03:27:55 -0500, ericfisher2@webtv.net (Eric Fisher) wrote:
From: jake- >I really wish Petra-haters would stop posting. >>>>>>>>>
it makes them feel a little better about themselves, to have someone to>put down. >it may be the highlight of their day. ;)>eric
I think the so-call Petra-haters have just as much right to post as do Petra fans. I happen to like Petra but that doesn't make my opinion of higher value than theirs.
Michael A . Vickers 14 May 2005 03:48:21 [ permanent link ]
Jerry B. Ray, Jr. (jr70@prism.gatech.edu) wrote:>Andrew Kerr <apkerr@yahoo.com> wrote:
I don't think I ever heard the origingal "Rose >>Colored Stain Glass Windows" but I like the Jars of Clay version on >>_Never Say Dinosaur_.
Yep, the tribute album is pretty good, and that's one of the few Jars of>Clay songs that doesn't bore me to tears, which is an accomplishment for>them and a statement about the quality of the source material. You should>seek out the original version (from _More Power To Ya_), though - it's quite>good as well.
It was borderline heresy that JoC covered it but they didn't do a bad job. What Jerry said, though - the original is a treasure.
Michael
-- "Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-millimeter bullet." - Dave Barry
David Bruce Murray 14 May 2005 19:58:29 [ permanent link ]
"Wasdin, Jake E." <jake6535@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:Q_Wge.9479$7A2.7175@bignews6.bellsouth.net...> I really wish Petra-haters would stop posting.
Well, I was a Petra fan for years. I just thought they should have retired about ten years ago. They were a great group, one of my favorites in the 1980s and early 1990s. They never fully recovered from the departure of John Lawry, IMO. After he left, their albums were still pretty good, but no longer great.
-- David Bruce Murray is still "Making hay while the sun shines" CD Reviews/BLOG: www.musicscribe.com/blog.html ("I know a pagan piano riff when I hear it." - Dr. Bobby Clark)
I liked [Petra]. Not so much the first couple of albums, but the Volz> stuff was really good, and the first few Schlitt albums were good,> too. After _Beyond Belief_ things started going downhill, and once> they started bringing in a bunch of nameless young dudes, they should> have hung it up.
I pretty much agree, although I never liked the vocal change from high and clear to generic raspy rock. I liked Volz's "Pieces of Eight" better than anything Petra put out after *Not of This World*.
I think when Petra started doing real rock in the early 80s, hardly anyone else was doing it. But after they broke the ground, other groups started doing harder stuff than Petra ever did, and a lot of their fan base migrated toward those harder groups.
I think constant lineup changes took their toll as well. Petra was essentially "The Bob Hartman Project," and from what I read, even he wasn't touring with them for the last five years. So what's really the connection between recent Petra and old Petra, other than the name?>
I always thought if they'd done a "reunion tour" with Volz and> Schlitt on vocals, Hartman on guitar, Weaver on drums, Lawry on keys,> and Cates on bass, they might have breathed a bit of life back into> their career. I, for one, would have been really excited to see that.> As it stands, though, I couldn't really muster much enthusiasm for> the last 10 or so years of their music, and _Jekyll and Hyde_ was, I> guess, too little too late.
The reunion tour idea would have been cool, but would have appealed mostly to an aging fan base. Some in that base, myself included, have had our musical tastes change over the years; my only interest in a reunion tour would have been nostalgia. *Jekyll and Hyde* was harder than what I like anymore; plus, it's still the same kind of Van Halen-era rock that doesn't recognize any musical developments in the last 20 years.
-- Kevin Wayne
"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Christian M . Mericle 17 May 2005 18:41:15 [ permanent link ]
On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:35 GMT, Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> wrote:
On 5/12/05 8:07 PM, Jerry B. Ray, Jr. wrote:>
I liked [Petra]. Not so much the first couple of albums, but the Volz>> stuff was really good, and the first few Schlitt albums were good,>> too. After _Beyond Belief_ things started going downhill, and once>> they started bringing in a bunch of nameless young dudes, they should>> have hung it up.>
I pretty much agree, although I never liked the vocal change from high >and clear to generic raspy rock. I liked Volz's "Pieces of Eight" better >than anything Petra put out after *Not of This World*.>
I think when Petra started doing real rock in the early 80s, hardly >anyone else was doing it. But after they broke the ground, other groups >started doing harder stuff than Petra ever did, and a lot of their fan >base migrated toward those harder groups.
I think the ground breaking is one of the reasons Petra is to be cheered. Had it not been for their pioneering, it may have delayed the whole Christian rock genre. I understand that even church people would sometimes picket their concerts in the beginning.
BTW, They are the only christian band in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.
"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:kg0k81l3lh3k3k572f17ciiaeb05ilh6d9@4ax.com...> On Mon, 16 May 2005 11:11:35 GMT, Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com>> wrote:>
On 5/12/05 8:07 PM, Jerry B. Ray, Jr. wrote:>>
I liked [Petra]. Not so much the first couple of albums, but the Volz>>> stuff was really good, and the first few Schlitt albums were good,>>> too. After _Beyond Belief_ things started going downhill, and once>>> they started bringing in a bunch of nameless young dudes, they should>>> have hung it up.>>
I pretty much agree, although I never liked the vocal change from high>>and clear to generic raspy rock. I liked Volz's "Pieces of Eight" better>>than anything Petra put out after *Not of This World*.>>
I think when Petra started doing real rock in the early 80s, hardly>>anyone else was doing it. But after they broke the ground, other groups>>started doing harder stuff than Petra ever did, and a lot of their fan>>base migrated toward those harder groups.>
I think the ground breaking is one of the reasons Petra is to be> cheered. Had it not been for their pioneering, it may have delayed the> whole Christian rock genre. I understand that even church people would> sometimes picket their concerts in the beginning.>
Christian M . Mericle 18 May 2005 18:50:23 [ permanent link ]
Don't know for sure. But, I imagine they were baptized.
-- Christian
On Wed, 18 May 2005 01:13:01 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter <steve.NO--SPAM@prime.org> wrote:
Christian M. Mericle <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> spake thusly and>wrote:>
I think the ground breaking is one of the reasons Petra is to be>>cheered. Had it not been for their pioneering, it may have delayed the>>whole Christian rock genre. I understand that even church people would>>sometimes picket their concerts in the beginning.>
Did they ever obey Acts 2:38 to really become true Biblical>Christians?>
Let's not dicuss that here. It seems to be different with each>
denomination.>
I can agree to not discuss it if that's what Pastor Winter wants. Or> if he'd like to discuss it offline, I'd certainly accomodate him there> too. But that's his decision. He, afterall, is the one who brought it> up.>
Are you inferring that baptism (physical baptism...with water) is the>only way to become a "true Biblical Christian"?
That is part of the new birth. Why would anyone ever imagine themselves to be a Christian if what they have does not match what the Bible says?
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
What is it about the word "and" that you can't understand?
Pastor Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Christian M . Mericle 20 May 2005 02:27:29 [ permanent link ]
On 19 May 2005 14:38:11 -0700, "Kurt Evans" <everything_matters@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>>====================>There are times when you feel like you can't go on>There are times when you feel like giving in>And there are times when you feel like you can't try anymore>There are times of trouble in believing>
This test of your faith will last>As long as it takes to pass>Till you have no more doubt you'll endure>And your faith will emerge true and pure>
No doubt it'll be all right>With God it'll work together for good>No doubt in the end it will be understood>
No doubt it'll all work out>With faith He can move any mountain for us>No doubt in the power of Jesus>
And after all is done we find out>All we really need to have is no doubt>
There's a time to take a reckless leap of faith>There's a time to be cautious and to wait>And there's a way of learning from the past>That this time of trouble won't last>
And sometimes we want to think we know>The ways He will choose to make us grow>But it's never the way of our choosing>And we can't always see what He's using>
There will be winters in the seasons of our soul>With a cold and bitter wind that chills our lives>But our faith can be building a fire>That will warm us till springtime arrives>
--from "No Doubt" by Bob Hartman (1995)
Unlike several others in here, I've liked some, most, or all of every Petra album-- the exception being Double Take. "No Doubt" is my favorite Petra song overall. It really helped me through a very tough time in my life.
It seems there are five distinct eras in Petra music... 1. The first 3 (or was it just 2?) albums before Greg X. Volz -- "Lucas McGraw" has to be one of the funniest songs in Christian music. 2. The Greg X. Volz years. 3. The early John Schlitt years. 4. The John Schlitt years after Lawry, Cates, etc. left. 5. The later John Schlitt years-- Double Take & Revival
I had hoped that Jekyll & Hyde was the beginning of a sixth (improved) era but that just isn't to be. Too little, too late as some have said.
I like both of John's solo albums. I heard he was working on a third but that has been some time ago. Maybe he'll go ahead and finish it up. That'd be great.
Christian M . Mericle 20 May 2005 18:47:50 [ permanent link ]
On 19 May 2005 16:09:09 -0700, "Bazooka-Joe" <seth@poormanrich.com> wrote:
Christian M. Mericle wrote:
<snip>
This is a great breakdown. Very logical. I was too young to>experience the first two eras. I'll have to find a copy of "Lucas>McGraw". Lawry, Cates and Hartman left after Wake-Up Call. I don't>think any of them was officially part of the band for the "No Doubt">project. To be honest I lump No Doubt, Petra Praise 2, God Fixation,>Double Take, and Revival all in the same "era". So if I had to do my>own "Eras of Petra" there would be four:>
1. 1974-1985: Pre-John Schlitt (there was a singer before Greg X.?)
Bob Hartman.
2. 1986-1989: Early John Schlitt (Back to the Street, This Means War,>On Fire)>3. 1990-1994: Petra in their Prime (Petra Praise, Beyond Belief,>Unseen Power, Wake-Up Call)>3. 1995-2002: Petra's Dark Years (No Doubt, Praise 2, God Fixation,>Double Take, Revival)>4. 2003-2005: Jekyll & Hyde (short-lived but an era to itself in my>book).
I can see where you're coming from. I probably just put Doutble Take and Revival into their own group because, to me, they sound so much different than ND, PP2, and GF. Of course, ND, PP2, and GF really didn't sound like each other.
<snip>>> I like both of John's solo albums. I heard he was working on a third>> but that has been some time ago. Maybe he'll go ahead and finish it>> up. That'd be great.>
I enjoyed his first solo album. Never saw the second, though heard>about it.
"Carlos Seramos" <pottercarl@hotmail.com> wrote:>> >Keith Green's "Create in Me A Clean Heart" and other>> >songs meant a great deal to me in the mid-80's. Later,>> >after spending some time reading his autobiography>> >as well as some of the other stuff that last-days>> >ministries put out I ended up getting a little put>> >off by the man.>>
Are you sure Keith wrote an autobiography, or are>> you thinking of the biography written by his widow?>
Sorry. Typo. I was talking about the book "No Compromise" by his widow>Melody Green. Did Melody ever remarry? I know she was engaged to Bob>Ayala at one time but they ended up breaking it off.
Yeah, she was married to Andrew Sievright but divorced him in 2000.
Interviewer: "I want to talk about you for a second here. Gary Manuel recently said that he had mixed and mastered three of the tracks for your solo album. Is there now a clearer timetable on when the album will be released?"
"John Schlitt: Let's put it this way. I've always said that I wouldn't do a solo record until Petra was back on its feet or was closed. Well, it looks like, as much as I wish it was the other choice, [Petra has closed] and it is opening doors for me.
"I don't really want to do it until I see where Petra is going this year. On the other hand, I'm certainly not going to sit on my hands if there's a chance to do something ministry-wise. I think I'm still supposed to do that. So, yeah, you may be seeing a John Schlitt record ... I don't know how soon, but it will finally get finished."
-- Christian
On Wed, 11 May 2005 08:03:16 -0600, Christian M. Mericle <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote:
Pastor Steve Winter 21 May 2005 08:47:57 [ permanent link ]
"Bazooka-Joe" <seth@poormanrich.com> spake thusly and wrote:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but>> he that believeth not shall be damned.>>
What is it about the word "and" that you can't understand?>
This verse is often used by baptismal regenerationists to show that>"baptism is necessary for salvation". It says he who believes AND is>baptized will be saved. Therefore they often conclude that baptism is>a necessary part of becoming saved.
Yes, because that is what he verse says. You do understand that the religion you are promoting is not the Christianity of the Bible?
Note when Paul was commanded to be baptised:
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Many false preachers (accursed of God) teach that baptism is merely "An outward profession of inward faith" or some such nonsense.
It is a lie from the very pits of hell, a trick of the devil to keep people in their sins. Water baptism is the re-birth of Water referred to in John 3:5.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
** Sins are washed away in Jesus' name baptism **
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Pastor sTeve Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Pastor Steve Winter 21 May 2005 08:52:49 [ permanent link ]
"Bazooka-Joe" <seth@poormanrich.com> spake thusly and wrote:
How is the thief on the cross then explained? Did Jesus not tell him>at that moment that he would be in paradise with him, and do so without>a baptism of water? A follower of the "Church of Christ" (a cult>believing in the outrageous practice of apostolic succession) would>argue that is because he died before the resurrection, and so baptism>wasn't unnecessary. If that's so, then why was John baptizing? And>for what reason did John start baptizing in the first place?
How can you false-christian scum be so ignorant? I would really feel sorry for you if you were not out here trying to deceive souls into the sewer with you.
Were not John's disciples re-baptised in Jesus Name?
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto JohnВ’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
I thought by now all of the false-christians knew better than to try that old "thief on the cross" argument to try to justify their disobedience of the Bible in their false-christian cults.
The thief on the cross died before the New Testament Church was born. The new testament Church was born in Acts 2:4 and the new testament plan of salvation preached in Acts 2:38, confirmed in Acts 2:39 and preached and practiced by the Apostles Acts 19-4-6.
One of the tricks that many false preachers use in their deception is that they use the "thief on the cross" as "proof" that baptism in Jesus name is not required for salvation. They use that one account of the "thief on the cross" to deceive people into flat ignoring *bunches* of verses about baptism, even a verse where the Lord Himself declares baptism as ESSENTIAL, they will ignore ALL these verses:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
* Jesus said,"... AND is baptized" *
Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
* Sins washed away THROUGH baptism *
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
* Believers were always baptized. *
Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
* Just look at those verses about Jesus name baptism! But the false preachers will still proclaim "thief on the cross" and those so deceived will go "amen brother"... BUT!! What the false preachers and those so deceived are overlooking is: The thief DIED BEFORE Baptism in Jesus name was even instituted and preached by the apostle Peter!! When the thief on the cross died, the new testament church had not been born; Jesus had not yet risen from the dead!!! The thief on the cross was dead for over a month BEFORE Acts 2:38 was even preached. *
The thief on the cross was not even in the "church" dispensation, the commandment to be baptised had not been given.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
I really hope that you can see the deception in the "thief on the cross" argument against baptism. But I hope that if your preacher told you that lie, that you will realize that he has lied to you about other things as well, and is not really a man of God at all.
The Bible warns so many times, in so many places that there will be MANY false preachers leading people to hell. People who are being led into hell by false preachers BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE SAVED; that is the job of the false preacher to keep them feeling "secure".
Does your preacher teach the "thief on the cross" as an excuse to undermine the essentiality of baptism? If so, are you going to follow him/her/it into the pits of hell, anyway?
Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Luke 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Pastor sTeve Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
David Bruce Murray 21 May 2005 18:19:37 [ permanent link ]
"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:rvtr81pgr9l5nomviq1annc9es6p51j0uk@4ax.com...> On 19 May 2005 16:09:09 -0700, "Bazooka-Joe" <seth@poormanrich.com>> wrote:> >1. 1974-1985: Pre-John Schlitt (there was a singer before Greg X.?)>
Bob Hartman.
Although Hartman contributed to background vocals often, I don't remember him ever being the key vocalist.
In 1974, Petra was: Hartman-Guitar, banjo, vocals; Greg Hough-Guitar, mandolin, vocals; Bill Glover-Drums, percussion; and John DeGroff-bass
This is the lineup that brought us the infamous "Lucas McGraw." I think Hough may have been there for another album or two (_Come And Join Us_?), but I'm not completely sure since some of my cassette copies have no liner notes.
2. 1986-1989: Early John Schlitt (Back to the Street, This Means War,> >On Fire)> >3. 1990-1994: Petra in their Prime (Petra Praise, Beyond Belief,> >Unseen Power, Wake-Up Call)
I would say Petra in their prime was from _Beat The System_ thru _Unseen Power_, with a decline starting with _On Fire_.
I would label all the other Volz recordings like _Not Of This World_ and _More Power To Ya_ as Classic Petra, but they were in their peak years by the time Volz did _Beat The System_ and the folllowup live project _Captured In Time And Space_.
3. 1995-2002: Petra's Dark Years (No Doubt, Praise 2, God Fixation,> >Double Take, Revival)
I generally agree with this. A song here and there stood out, but the consistency of quality from previous Petra recordings was gone. The ultimate low was definitely _Double Take_. As a concept, it was great. In execution, it was laughable.
-- David Bruce Murray is still "Making hay while the sun shines" CD Reviews/BLOG: www.musicscribe.com/blog.html ("I know a pagan piano riff when I hear it." - Dr. Bobby Clark)
David Bruce Murray 21 May 2005 18:25:44 [ permanent link ]
"Christian M. Mericle" <newsgroupinky@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:292s81l1jds3qjsmb8lp73ijjpm99obakl@4ax.com...> John Schlitt plans to do another solo album.
That's good to hear. I wonder if Bob Hartman has ever considered going into bluegrass.
-- David Bruce Murray is still "Making hay while the sun shines" CD Reviews/BLOG: www.musicscribe.com/blog.html ("I know a pagan piano riff when I hear it." - Dr. Bobby Clark)
On 5/21/05 12:52 AM, Pastor Steve Winter wrote:> you false-christian scum
How can you call "scum" people for whom Christ died?
Matt. 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
*plonk*
(And yes, I have been baptized. In *Jesus'* name. You're still a false prophet.)
-- Kevin Wayne
"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare their souls." --Steve Hindalong
Pastor Steve Winter 22 May 2005 23:00:45 [ permanent link ]
Kevin Wayne <killedbyafoo@yahoo.com> spake thusly and wrote:
How can you call "scum" people for whom Christ died?
See my reply as: "Can Kevin Wayne really be that stupid?"
Jesus is the author of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, not for the false-christian scum who labor to deceive souls into hell.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
You are some kind of ignorant Kevin Wayne! You want to defend scum that labor to deceive those "for whom Christ died" into a comfortable disobedience of the Bible and the resulting lake of fire. Are you really that stupid or are you deliberately deceiving?
I believe that some of you folks have some serious misconceptions about the Lord of the Bible, who was the perfect example for the Christian..
I Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: I Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: I Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed [himself] to him that judgeth righteously:
But let us also look at a particular situation that shows us the Lord exhibiting unusual behaviour; and that is, when he encountered false preachers, false religionists, deceivers like the modern day trinity preachers.
Matthew 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.
Looking carefully at verse 27. In our modern language "full of dead men's bones and all uncleanliness" would roughly translate as the modern term "scum". That tells me that if the Lord was walking our streets today and encountered a denominal trinitarian preacher, that He would call him/her/it "scum", "snake", "hypocrite".
"Love incarnate" didn't coddle false preachers. The Apostle Paul instructs us should we encounter anyone preaching other than the original Acts 2:38 message:
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
(Check out Acts 19, if you have any doubts that Paul adhered to the Acts 2:38 re-birth of WATER and SPIRIT.)
Would Jesus Christ call you and/or your preacher "scum" ? If he's not preaching the Acts 2:38 Apostolic message, He sure would!
I hope this helps you figure things out...
Pastor sTeve Winter -- Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio) Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Be that as it may, somehow I can't see Jesus being abusive and calling people names...no matter what the Bible says.
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal...Love is patient, love is kind...It is not rude..."(ICor 13)
How God's name did you manage to be in charge of His sheep with such a harsh and abrasive attitude?
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