Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise was living in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is illogical.
Cubit wrote:> Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise was living> in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline> Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is illogical.>
Whoa! So "TATV" is actually *another* MIRROR universe???? YIPPEE!!! That means it's not canon!!! <whew>
Cubit wrote:> Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise was living> in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline> Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is illogical.
Who's to say ST-TOS and all subsequent series simply weren't part of that aletrnate history all along?
"Cubit" <no@not.not> wrote in message news:xH0ie.349$kj7.334@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...> Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise was > living> in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline> Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is illogical.
Maybe the original timeline that Enterprise started with was the alternate timeline, and the induced Xindi attack brought them into the current one.
Ernie Sty wrote:> "Cubit" <no@not.not> wrote in message> news:xH0ie.349$kj7.334@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...> > Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise
living> > in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline> > Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is
illogical.>
Maybe the original timeline that Enterprise started with was the
alternate> timeline, and the induced Xindi attack brought them into the current one.
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow" (the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).
<sailormoon@naturecoast.net> wrote in message news:1116269917.084704.101810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> Ernie Sty wrote:>> "Cubit" <no@not.not> wrote in message>> news:xH0ie.349$kj7.334@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...>> > Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise> was>> > living>> > in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline>> > Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is> illogical.>>
Maybe the original timeline that Enterprise started with was the> alternate>> timeline, and the induced Xindi attack brought them into the current> one.>
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow"> (the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).>
Maybe EVERYTHING is in a alternate time line since "City on the Edge of Forever". Do we REALLY know that Kirk and Spock didn't change history in some more subtle way than letting the Nazi's win WWII?
Jeff DeWitt
David Johnston wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:55 -0500, "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com>> wrote:>
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow">>>(the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).>>>
Nemesis came out after that.>>
You aren't actually serious about this, are you? >
Actually Star Trek has been in an "alternate timeline" since well> before that. After all, in the socalled "original timeline" Tasha> never had a child.
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:55 -0500, "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com>>> wrote:>>
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow">>>>(the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).>>>>
Nemesis came out after that.>>>
You aren't actually serious about this, are you? >>
Actually Star Trek has been in an "alternate timeline" since well>> before that. After all, in the socalled "original timeline" Tasha>> never had a child.
On Tue, 17 May 2005 02:17:30 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote:
This could really get ridiculous...>
Maybe EVERYTHING is in a alternate time line since "City on the Edge of >Forever". Do we REALLY know that Kirk and Spock didn't change history >in some more subtle way than letting the Nazi's win WWII?
They probably did but changes to the timeline that don't make a noise didn't happen. In Tasha's case we can definitely say what is different about the new timeline although it is unlikely that it made a difference a hundred years down the road.
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:55 -0500, "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com>>>>wrote:>>>
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow">>>>>(the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).>>>>>
Nemesis came out after that.>>>>
You aren't actually serious about this, are you? >>>
Actually Star Trek has been in an "alternate timeline" since well>>>before that. After all, in the socalled "original timeline" Tasha>>>never had a child. >
On Tue, 17 May 2005 02:17:30 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>> wrote:>
This could really get ridiculous...>>
Maybe EVERYTHING is in a alternate time line since "City on the Edge of >>Forever". Do we REALLY know that Kirk and Spock didn't change history >>in some more subtle way than letting the Nazi's win WWII?>
They probably did but changes to the timeline that don't make a noise> didn't happen. In Tasha's case we can definitely say what is> different about the new timeline although it is unlikely that it made> a difference a hundred years down the road. >
Is that necessarily so? This whole alternative reality/futures thing can get very strange. If Kirk (or whoever) goes back in time and changes ANYTHING does that create a new time line so now we have the original time line where Kirk didn't go back and change anything, and another were he did?
It wouldn't have to be a big change, Kirk shows up in a Starfleet uniform and steals some clothes. Now whoever owned those clothes is missing them and goes to the store to get new ones. On the way to the store he gets run over by a bus and so never has a kid who would have grown up to become a hack writer for a TV show, and as a result the show gets a different writer and goes on for many more years...
Or more minor, the guy who's clothes he stole gets on the bus, goes to the store and buys new clothes. At the store he meets a cute sales girl and they go out a few times. Nothing else is different, and after he and the sales girl go their separate ways he meets the girl he was going to marry in the world without Kirk, they get married and have the kid who grows up the be the hack writer.
That world is a different place because of Kirks intervention, but no one could tell the difference between the two time lines.
On Tue, 17 May 2005 05:17:14 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com> wrote:
David Johnston wrote:>>>Jeff DeWitt>>>
David Johnston wrote:>>>
On Mon, 16 May 2005 16:13:55 -0500, "Ernie Sty" <fake_email@yahoo.com>>>>>wrote:>>>>
Enterprise has been in an alternate timeline ever since "Broken Bow">>>>>>(the Suliban acting on orders from Future Guy).>>>>>>
Nemesis came out after that.>>>>>
You aren't actually serious about this, are you? >>>>
Actually Star Trek has been in an "alternate timeline" since well>>>>before that. After all, in the socalled "original timeline" Tasha>>>>never had a child. >>
On Tue, 17 May 2005 02:17:30 GMT, Jeff DeWitt <JeffDeWitt@nc.rr.com>>> wrote:>>
This could really get ridiculous...>>>
Maybe EVERYTHING is in a alternate time line since "City on the Edge of >>>Forever". Do we REALLY know that Kirk and Spock didn't change history >>>in some more subtle way than letting the Nazi's win WWII?>>
They probably did but changes to the timeline that don't make a noise>> didn't happen. In Tasha's case we can definitely say what is>> different about the new timeline although it is unlikely that it made>> a difference a hundred years down the road. >>
Is that necessarily so? This whole alternative reality/futures thing >can get very strange. If Kirk (or whoever) goes back in time and >changes ANYTHING does that create a new time line so now we have the >original time line where Kirk didn't go back and change anything, and >another were he did?
No. Despite the use of the expression, Star Trek doesn't have timelines. There is no other "timeline". When they go back and change history, they just change history; they do not spawn some new universe. Given how much time travel had been going on, even before Enterprise, history had actually been changed dozens of times, although most of the changes were apparently inconsequential. It seems as if history "wants" to return to it's accustomed path so you have to work really hard to change it noticeably, and it's easy to change it back and if you go forward far enough, even a permanent change diminishes in importance, instead of growing the way you'd expect. This is of course a convenience for the writers, since otherwise every time you timetravelled very far back, you'd come back to find that nobody knows you and you don't know anyone.
On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:51:41 GMT, "Cubit" <no@not.not> wrote, in part:
Once the time traveler induced Zindi attack occurred, Enterprise was living>in a new timeline. The final episode showing an alternate timeline>Enterprise as history of the Next Generation Enterprise is illogical.
No; we are watching the history of the timeline as crafted by the good and bad time travellers; the end result is the timeline that made the future we saw possible.
I am still hoping we have a future episode where First Contact is retconned out; Earth doesn't have the devastating war that led up to it; instead, in the context of a peaceful, advanced, and prosperous Earth, which had already colonized Alpha Centauri by sublight means, Zefram Cochrane - in that colony - discovers warp drive as a young man.
Also, we see a terraformed Mars where people ride horses.
Earth discovers "Vulcan" - and this is why it is given a name from Earth legends, although the people who live there call it something else entirely. The planet is technologically *less* advanced than Earth, despite its people being much stronger and smarter than Earth people; although they made much faster progress than we did, they started later. This happened only 20 years or so before the events of the original Star Trek series, so that many Earth people still misunderstand what the "logical" nature of Vulcan culture is all about, and imagine that if Vulcans are unemotional, they must be ruthlessly selfish. (Instead of knowing from long experience that their faults are more likely to be bigotry and paternalism.)
The Enterprise, with Robert April as captain, 40 years before the events of the original series, is one of the first generation of long-range starships.
And, of course, if the scale of warp speeds changes *after* the events of the original series, that will be a new thing, not a change *back* to the scale that was used a hundred years previously. Nor is the background of the original series 80 years of near-stagnation in technological progress, but instead decades of advance even faster than what we have today.
Enterprise and First Contact deviate from 100% consistency with the original series. Thus, whatever the dramatic merits of Enterprise may be, its loss from continuity would not be a bad thing.
However, Enterprise could still remain the canonical predecessor of Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager. They could all belong to the same alternate timeline as the original cast Star Trek movies too.
But the TV series clearly has its own, better, timeline - and the animated series a third one.
